Best of Both Worlds: Empower Your Team & Scale Your Business

MICHELLE SAUNDERS: 

I would say this is the time to really either rethink your business plan, or if you're going to open another business or open a new salon, definitely make room for all of the staff structure that you think would help your business be successful. 

SHANALIE WIJESINGHE: 

Michelle Saunders James is a renowned manicurist celebrated for her creativity, precision, and color expertise. She began her career in San Francisco at Chanel Boutiques, honing a gentle, thorough technique. After opening a successful appointment-only salon, she became a sought after figure in the beauty industry – working with A-list celebrities and high profile publications like Vogue and W Magazine. Michelle is also a leading manicurist at New York Fashion Week for brands such as Versace, Chanel, and Louis Vuitton.Her impressive portfolio includes collaborations with major brands like Sephora and Apple. Known for creating durable, high quality nail designs, Michelle continues to innovate with fashion forward looks.

AD FROM OUR SPONSOR:

This episode is brought to you by Boulevard, the modern, easy to use client experience platform that delivers everything you need to streamline your business, empower your staff, and amaze your clients. Listeners can save 10 percent for tuning into this episode. To learn more, go to joinblvd.com slash podcast. Boulevard. Make every moment matter. 

SHANALIE WIJESINGHE: 

Thank you so much for joining us, everyone. I couldn't be more excited to have this conversation today. We have Michelle Saunders, owners and creator of Saunders and James. So Michelle, we are super excited to talk about your business concept for both of your locations. But before we dive into that, we, of course, want to get to know you a little bit for those of, uh, that are listening that maybe haven't met you before. Please tell us about your journey in becoming a manicurist and finding yourself in this industry. 

‍MICHELLE SAUNDERS: 

That's such a good question to start off with, Shanalie. It’s so good to see you. I'm glad to be here. I love nails. I mean, I really, really do. I love being a manicurist and it's something that I knew that I wanted to do early on. I actually went to school in cosmetology because I thought I wanted to do hair and it followed along my family background. My mom was a hairstylist and I said, you know what? It was a great business for her. I'm like, I'm going to do it for myself, but of course going into cosmetology. I was no good at hair. I really wasn't. But you learn everything in school, right? You learn hair, you learn skin care, and nail care. And I just naturally gravitated towards manicuring and I just loved it. I've been doing it ever since. I mean, I can't think of how many manicures I've done. I mean, it must be almost in the millions. 

SHANALIE WIJESINGHE: 

Yeah, you've had an incredible career. So what got you on that track of being essentially like a celebrity manicurist? Like you're doing incredible session work. I know you had a long career even before opening the doors at Saunders and James.

So we'd love to hear a little bit about that. 

MICHELLE SAUNDERS: 

Yeah, it was interesting because I accidentally kind of fell into the whole celebrity world Celebrity manicuring title. I didn't even know it existed growing up in Northern California. I moved to Southern California and One person said you should be an on set manicurist. I was like, what is that? I never even heard of that before and I said, okay, well What do I do? And sure enough, they're like, well, just call this place and they'll start booking you right away. So I said, okay. So I just called the booking agency, like a cold call. I had a resume and I had a manicure kit and I was like, Hey, I'm available.

And this was over 13 years ago. And you know, at that point there weren't a lot of us then. There's so many more now, but then there weren't very many. So I started working right away on some of the, uh, wildest jobs actually. And some, some jobs that I would be on, I'm like, is this really happening? Am I really here? And it's just been like that ever since. And I did that for a long time for over 13 years. And I still do. I still do. I work all over from Northern California to Los Angeles to New York. I mean, I get texts all the time, calls. I'm like, I'm, I'm there. I'll show up for you. Whatever you need, I'm there. 

SHANALIE WIJESINGHE: 

That's incredible. And before we wrap this, we're definitely going to get a story or two out of you.

MICHELLE SAUNDERS: 

I've got some good ones. Oh my god, have I signed NDAs? I have, but some I haven't. One so you can share. No names, no names. Please, please. 

SHANALIE WIJESINGHE: 

So tell us, what inspired you to actually open up Saunders and James? 

MICHELLE SAUNDERS: 

Well, I think it's twofold. One, it's my second nail salon. My first nail salon was a very small, uh, studio boutique. It was just me and another manicurist, and it was just the two of us, and it was very simple. We had a very small clientele, and this was in the early 2000s, so there was no computer, there was no digital cell phone. I mean, everything was just all done by hand.

So it's very different. But it's how we learned. Like when I started doing nails, it was in 1990. I mean, that's a long time, right? And, I learned how to do nails, kind of the classic manicuring way. Things have evolved so much through technology and digital media. I mean, I am a better manicurist now because of technology.

And I just never thought that that was going to be that way. I thought maybe I'd just do the same nails all the time, but I learned so much all the time. So from that salon, um, which was very small and kind of antiquated, but boutique, I moved to Los Angeles. And then I did all the mobile and I thought maybe, maybe I'll work in a salon in Los Angeles, but there was no time.

I really literally just was working all the time. I learned my whole way around Los Angeles through call sheets, right? Like, go here, go there. I mean, I didn't even need the GPS. I just followed the map. And then I realized maybe it was about 2019. I realized, 2018, I realized that, the industry can be consistently inconsistent and I realized I think I want something a little bit more stable.

I want something that has some roots and I saw all these most amazing nail salons that were opening up and they were very high end and they were very modern and they had all the technology that they needed to produce the kind of manicuring services that I was used to. Which is a high end customer service oriented type of salon and I said, you know what? I'm gonna put one in my hometown because there were some great ones in Los Angeles, great ones in New York, but they didn't have any in Northern California. I'm gonna open my own. It was a dream. It really was a dream to have a storefront brick and mortar on Main Street and provide the community that I live in which is in Oakland, California the type of nail service that I provide my celebrity clients.

I was like, I want to give it to everybody. I don't want it to just be limited to Los Angeles or New York. I want it to be. In my hometown, and that's what I did. 

‍SHANALIE WIJESINGHE: 

Absolutely, like the accessibility around that type of service I think is a really beautiful thing. And personally, I'm very appreciative of you opening up in Oakland because I was actually living there at the time and got to experience that like full on and all the glory of the amazing client experience that you have there.

So tell us, how do you find the talent that you employ? I know you are really carefully seeking these people out because you were putting them through an incredible training program. So how do you pull the right person in?

MICHELLE SAUNDERS: 

Yeah, that's a good question. It's really challenging actually because part of me and who I am, I really like to give back, right? I really love to give my knowledge, my experience, and I really like to share it with people. And I want to share it with everyone. And that's my creative nurturing self, but of course there's a whole business side that you have to focus on when you have a business and a company and you want to make sure that you're hiring, uh, in a way that is also going to help the business as well as the team member. So I, and it's so funny because everything that I've done with my business, I've really just created it myself out of necessity. I was like, this is what needs to happen in order for the business to be successful, but also any new hires or any colleagues that I work with. Certain things have to happen. So I go through a pretty strong interview process where it starts with a phone call and Indeed has been great, I don't know if I can, Indeed has been a great resource for a long time, Craigslist, but not, not anymore for me.

And I also really find sometimes people walk in, social media has been helpful, uh, but there's an interview process. So we start with a phone call and I make sure that this person that I'm speaking to loves Has a passion for it, has a valid license, and whether they come out of school recently or they have experience the initial phone call is really important because you can really tell if someone it's their career or it's something that maybe they're just trying out once they pass that questionnaire that I have then I have them come in for a first interview I have them meet me.

I have them meet our front desk. I have them meet our management and then I have them go through a test and it's a practical exam. There's also a small written exam and the questions I think to most new manicurists must feel so antiquated. This like, this is, these questions, like, what is leukonychia? And what is, what are the top three toxic chemicals in nail care? A little bit of beauty 

SHANALIE WIJESINGHE:

A little bit of beauty school in there, yeah. 

MICHELLE SAUNDERS JAMES:

And the reason why I ask these questions, it's really about, so I can understand where their knowledge is and then I can see where I can focus on the training because right away You'll see someone's strengths and someone's weaknesses.

So what I try to do is promote their strengths, but also help lift up their weaknesses, so then they can learn because everyone wants to be a really good manicurist. Everyone. And that's really the only way to build a clientele is that you have to be really, really good at your job. Not only through skill, but through customer service and through communication.I think communication is very important. So right at the beginning. With that initial interview process, communication is really important to me, so I ask a lot of questions and then they do the practical exam and the practical is very simple. I usually just have them do one hand, and believe it or not the hardest Manicure to give is a natural manicure with red nail polish.

Yeah, that will set you apart like right away, the difference. And when I first started doing nails, my mentor, my first boss, I was only allowed to paint red nails for six months. That was it. So she would do the manicuring and then they'd send them over to me and really because at that time, red nail polish was popular and French manicure, but it  just came back now. But so for six months, I trained on that I trained on until I could become perfect at that polish. And right away, I know if they can get polish red nail manicures. Whether my nails are long or short and they have a grasp of that product, then I know that they can learn everything else. And that's really what I do. And then they come for a second interview as well to meet the rest of the team. And it's more, the hiring process is more of a group effort.

Of course, I have certain things that I look for, but I want them to also meet the entire team. It's a group. It's a group effort and we all, it's a small salon. I mean, we have eight to nine people working there and so we all have to get along, right? We all have to vibe and, and that's how it works out.

SHANALIE WIJESINGHE: 

You're building your own community. You're building the community.

MICHELLE SAUNDERS JAMES: 

Yeah. Right! Exactly. And I think communication is really important. It's about sharing your knowledge and also Asking a lot of questions. Those are the two things that I would say are very important to me. 

SHANALIE WIJESINGHE: 

Yeah, so you said something that really stuck out to me in particular that your goal isn't essentially that figure out what they're bad at or, what you need to like to shame them on, but more so like where do I need to wrap around you? How do I nurture you? How do I get you to be that well rounded employee that we're looking for? So, It's essentially another step in getting to know this person and be like, “Hey, like where, what's our starting point and how do we get to that well rounded individual we're looking at?” That's really incredible.

MICHELLE SAUNDERS JAMES: 

Yeah. Thanks. And then I also ask them what, what do they love to do? What do they not like to do? Uh, what do they want to learn? What are they interested in? What is it? Do they never want to learn? Right? I ask them and it's incredible some of the answers that I get and that knowledge takes them on a career trajectory.

Some people don't ever want to do pedicures. Some people really love pedicures. Some people just want to do gel manicures. Some people just want to do shiny buff manicures. So it really In my salon, you have to learn everything. We start you off very small, which is wonderful because you just start with the most simplest services, and then you kind of graduate to the more elaborate services along the way you get support from me and some other lead, uh, teammates.

And it's been really helpful that way. And in this salon, if you can imagine, we're all in there doing nails together and everyone listens to each other on how to educate the client. to inform them of services. And we just learn by doing. We learn by listening. And at any time, and which has been so wonderful, is that their clients understand this. And I think it must make them feel very supported because they know, okay, my red nail polish manicure didn't come out that well. So right away, there's someone that can fix it. They can just come around and say, let me just do a little bit of this. So we all support each other. We never, I mean, my goal is to never shame.

I really support my team a hundred percent. And if anyone is feeling uncomfortable or embarrassed, we just, we, we stop that right away and we just come in and lift them up and nurture them. Like, let's, I want you to learn this so you'll have this. Even if you never do in 10 years, if you never do a red nail polish, ever, that's okay. At least maybe someday you'll teach someone how to do it the way that I showed you how to do it. 

SHANALIE WIJESINGHE: 

Yeah. That's beautiful. Yeah. It's like a lineage. 

MICHELLE SAUNDERS JAMES: 

It is. I mean, I gotta, I gotta give back. I have all this nail knowledge and Yeah. It's considered an expert. I've gotta share it. I can't just sit on it. I pay it forward.

SHANALIE WIJESINGHE: 

You got to. You have to. That's beautiful, yeah.

EMILY BADGLEY: 

This episode is brought to you by Boulevard, the first and only client experience platform with seamless scheduling, messaging, and payments that are fast, elegant, and reliable. Boulevard delivers everything you need to streamline your business and delight your clients. Set the tone with chic online booking that matches your brand aesthetic and keeps your calendar stacked.

Personalize appointments with detailed client profiles and custom accommodations, and keep the spark alive with SMS texts and email marketing. And grow your beauty empire with a complete user friendly platform designed for the unique needs of your business. For listening to today's episode, you can save 10 percent and put Boulevard to work for you.

Go to joinblvd.com slash podcast to learn more Boulevard. Make every moment matter.

SHANALIE WIJESINGHE: 

So let's talk about your salon. So now, you know, Saunders and James has been an incredible success. So you're onto your next salon. So I know you actually transitioned. You went with a completely different business model for your second location. I'd love to hear a little bit more about that. 

MICHELLE SAUNDERS JAMES: 

Yeah, that's great. It is. A very unique experience that I have had was having an employee salon because before that, I was an independent contractor and I had independent contractors where I just built the space and then manicurists would rent that for me. So I became like a landlord instead of a boss. So I had that experience before.

But what I didn't enjoy about that particular situation was like the tearing apart businesses where you have a manicurist who's been working with you for a long time when, when you're an employee and you learn the skills from your mentor or your boss, they show you all of these things to be successful. You build a clientele, but then there's like, a rip part and they, in my experience, you know, the manicurist will leave and there'll be bad feelings and they took the clientele and then, you know, I was just like, you know what? There's gotta be, yeah, there's drama. I'm like, there's gotta be a better way because what I've watched in all of this time doing nails is. Yes, of course. You want someone who just graduates from school. You want to teach them. You want them to be successful. Basically, I say you want you to build your wings and fly off. And I saw this happen. I'm like, But I don't want them to fly off. I want them to stay] with me! And the clients also kind of like the environment that they're getting their manicures and their pedicures done.

So I said, guess what I'm going to do? I'm going to build a space where they can learn how to go from being an employee to an independent contractor. So I did. So I, I mean, for so many, since we opened the salon in 2020, so many people ask, well, are you going to open a second location? Are you going to open the second location? Where are you going to do that? And I was like, you know what? I want to do something different. And so the second studio, which is called Duo, uh, it's just a two station studio salon. And one of my manicurists, my lead manicurist, she was ready to go. She had built a clientele. She had worked so hard. She worked full time Tuesday through Saturday from 10 to six for two years. And she just put in the work. And I, I can't even tell you how proud I am to have watched this particular situation happen. I was just like, wow, look, it's actually happening. And I knew that it was going to be about that time where she's ready to fly off. I know. I know what?  

SHANALIE WIJESINGHE: 

Your baby bird.  

MICHELLE SAUNDERS JAMES: 

Yeah. I was like, you know what? I'm going to, I'm going to build a space. And so I did. And it has worked out so perfectly, even though it's kind of like I'm in beta mode a little bit. So I'm like, I would have ideally liked to have it in one space, of course, but it didn't have the room for it. And I think we were talking earlier where, how could you have?

An independent contracting, uh, person and also an employee. How could you have that in the same space? That would be the challenge. It does have to have a little bit of a separateness because when you are independent, there's a, you know, there's a lot of distraction if you're in the middle of a salon and there's, you know, new hires and there's a lot going on

So when you hit a certain time in your manicure and career, you do want to be more independent and have a little bit more solitude and independence. And that's why I opened a different location, smaller, but different, but it's, it's been going really well and I feel really happy about it and I just can't wait to see what happens next with the staff structure. The way it works now after the interview process, I determine where they're at, like I assess them.

So most of the time they graduate, uh, from beauty school and or nail school, and then they come in kind of at an entry level. They've never worked at a salon, so they do salon assisting. So they become manicurists in training, uh, assistant manicurist, and then they go on to junior manicurist and then they go on to senior manicurist and then lead manicurist. And lead is like the highest, uh, role that you can have at the salon and they kind of do everything. So they look at even the books, like they look and see, Oh wow, this person is running late with so and so. So I'm going to just come on in and help. So the lead is, it's like, for me, it was a second pair of eyes who was on the floor, the salon floor, who saw so many things that needed support, even though they were still with the clientele. They were constantly listening and they were helping. And that's, that's amazing that that happened. And now that one of my team members have, you know, flown off, we have another lead now who's doing that. So I'm seeing this amazing staff structure cycle.

It's actually working. That's great. And it's incredible. Yeah. And I did model a little bit of my business off of some salons that we know and love. And uh, more hair salons that I, that I kind of was inspired by. But this is, as far as I know, We have the first nail salon to do this. So yeah, no, it's very exciting.

SHANALIE WIJESINGHE: 

Very exciting. So tell us like, how do you keep the consistency between the two locations? Right, we, I know it's probably easier for you and Saunders and James, where everyone's an employee. That's part of the deal that they're, they're signing up for. But when you think about duo, your second location you now have a different model. How do you keep that consistency that your clients know and love and really are expecting?

MICHELLE SAUNDERS JAMES: 

The challenge of keeping it consistent was something that I really did think about. And I would probably say, especially if someone doesn't have experience doing, you know, independent contracting, I decided that within the first like three to six months of them being on their own, that I would still provide the salon support, like the big salon support. So that would be helping with booking. That would be helping refer clients to them if they client, you know, it's like, oh, where am I going to go today? Um, it's helping with teaching them how to be their own business person and learning about customer service and how to communicate. So I, the consistency is there because I'm still supporting them.

That's great, and I feel, you know, each person will be a little bit different, but between three and six months, I just use everything that I've built at Saunders and James and I allow them to use it as well. But also for them building their own brand, right? Because there's trust there. So they trust me because I've already done all the work and I know how to be successful when it comes to owning a nail salon. And yet they're probably nervous and afraid. Like, “I'm on my own. How do I, how do I, you know, call this person? How do I text this person? How do I ask for payment?” It takes a lot of self esteem and confidence to really be able to say to a client that, you know, this is what I need from you. This is how it works.

So you just build all your structure, and I help them build the structure. So they have what they need to go ahead and do it. It's, it's going really well. 

SHANALIE WIJESINGHE:

It sounds like a good deal to me.

MICHELLE SAUNDERS JAMES:

It's a good deal. Yeah. 

SHANALIE WIJESINGHE: 

Yeah, you know, literally,  that sounds amazing. It sounds, you know, you essentially give them a little set of training wheels on their way out.

MICHELLE SAUNDERS JAMES: 

Exactly, and you know they're going to kick, kick those wheels off soon. They're like, I don't need them. So… 

SHANALIE WIJESINGHE: 

I think so many people are going to be interested in this concept, especially with the retention piece.

This is such a great way to retain people, really. Um, I know so many people worry about losing folks to salon suites and you know, all of those independent locations that have popped up. So what would you say to other owners that are considering this type of concept? 

MICHELLE SAUNDERS JAMES: 

I definitely see that this is the wave of the future when it comes to, uh, at least nail care. Everyone wants to be their own boss, which is wonderful. And I support that a hundred percent and I want to be my own boss, which is exactly why I opened my own salon many, many years ago. Yeah, I would say this is the time to really either rethink your business plan or if you're going to open another business or open a new salon, definitely have room, make room for all of the staff structure that you think would help your business be successful. I really had to think about it.

I really just evolved through necessity. And I evolved through really looking at how I can retain the team that I really invested in and they invested in me as well. And how can I really keep this up? And I know through my experience that everyone is going to want to do something on their own eventually. So why not just build your business that way? So it nurtures both needs and both wants. I'm very excited to see what's next for me. I mean, if you were to ask me, like, what's my next step? What's my next dream? I mean, I'm living in the present dream, but I'm always looking forward to what's next. So if I had a moment, I would say, hello, my next salon. If I have a moment, I would build it all in one. So it would be, I mean, this, this is dreaming really big, but part of it would be training, part of it would be salon, where you, uh, you do the nails, you do all the services, the clients come in and then, independent contracting. So then they go from one, two, and three.

And then, I mean, it's great, right? I'm very excited about that. And I can't wait to see, maybe next year. I'm starting off with just the two studios, you know, two station studio. But why not? Let's see where it takes us.

SHANALIE WIJESINGHE: You know, I was going to ask you, like, what are you dreaming up for your third location? So that might be it.

MICHELLE SAUNDERS JAMES: 

That's it. I'm looking at maybe a bigger space. Yeah. Yeah. I did actually reach out to my landlord and was like, you got any spaces like upstairs or next door that I can just like move into? And they didn't at the time. But who knows? Maybe next year they will. You never know. And then I can just open a wall. Go through.

SHANALIE WIJESINGHE: 

Definitely. I mean, you have a gorgeous space, so if you could make it even bigger, I think that would be like the only thing that makes it even better. But yes, it's gorgeous. So, um, that was incredible. So we have a couple of questions that we love to ask every single guest. So we like to call this portion, the good, the bad and the ugly. So this can be anything, whether it's an achievement to a client horror story or to a big moment that you'll never forget. Like give us, give us some good bits here. We'd love to hear it. 

MICHELLE SAUNDERS JAMES: 

I've got some good stories, some really good ones. Okay. Um, so I'll start with a funny cause when I'm on set, right. When I'm working with celebrities, whether it's a pop star or a multiple award winning actress, there are things that happen. Right? I can't name any names, but I can say you make mistakes sometimes. So I did, I made two really big mistakes. One time I was doing a wonderful, beautiful, amazing actress and she was ready, going to the Academy Awards.

And I was there with hair and makeup and I had my amazing manicure kit and I put it, you know. When you show up, sometimes it's not salon ready, right? So you kind of, you have to bring your own chair, you have to bring your own light, you have to bring everything. It's one, you know, stop shop, you bring it all.

And I placed my manicure kit on her dining room table, and everyone was doing hair and nails and, makeup all at the same time. So I was just taking my polish remover, taking the polish off, and doing the manicuring, da da da da da, and everything, she looked great. Everything was so excited, she was gonna go up and get dressed, and I go to take off my manicure kit, and it was stuck on the table.

SHANALIE WIJESINGHE: 

Nooo?! 

MICHELLE SAUNDERS JAMES:

Because my acetone melted through my kit onto her beautiful dining room table, and I, I, hives, cold sweat. I'm like, what am I, I mean, this table must be, I mean, it's a, it's a relic. It's an antique. How am I ever going to fix my situation? So I just kind of like, I didn't make a fuss. I didn't, I didn't do anything. That made a bunch of, I just waited for her to leave. Oh, great. We took pictures. Everything was great. She went on. 

And then. I was there with hair and makeup and I'm like, You guys, help me. I can't. What do I do? What do I do? And luckily they helped and there was an assistant there and they're all helping. They helped me rip it off and then we put oil. We tried to patch the table but you know what? It was ruined. And so I, when it comes to communication, this is where I tell my team, you gotta be communicative with your clients and with each other. So I just sent a nice note and I said, I ruined your table. I am so sorry. What can I do to fix it? And they're like, I thought it was like an antique, they're like, “No, that's just like a prop table. That's just for when we get ready. It doesn't matter if it's ruined.” I was like, oh, that was, that was, that worked out right. So that was an intense situation on my end. 

Um, when it comes to being inspired, things that make me feel really grateful is, just at the end of the day. I just turn around as I lock up and I, I just, I thank every single team member at the end of the day. Thank you so much for your hard work. Thank you so much. I tell every client, thank you so much for coming in. I'm just, I have just an, an immense amount of gratitude for anyone that walks into my salon and out of my salon. I just, every single day, anyone that walks through that door, I just have gratitude.

I do. And I think maybe because I have that, that's just what is being given back to me, and so that, that's what's inspiring to me and, and I, and it works and I'm just going to keep doing that. 

SHANALIE WIJESINGHE: 

Aw, Michelle, you radiate gratitude. Thank you. That's the one thing. I feel like I always learn so much every time I'm, I'm with you.

So, um, one of our final questions will be, how do you define success? 

MICHELLE SAUNDERS JAMES: 

Hmm. That's so, that's really a good, um, question. One to think about. I mean, for a long time, I would think that having a lot of money in the bank would be, you know, a sign of success. But as I've learned, you know, going through a global pandemic where you have zero money in the bank because there's no, you know, being in the service industry we had, yeah, we couldn't work for a long time. Luckily we had a little help, but I think really it's about having peace in your heart and feeling very peaceful at the end of the day and you're able to rest your head on your pillow at night. 

To me that's success, knowing that you've done your very best and that everybody around you knows that you've done your best. Clients know that you do your best and if you show that. Um, sense of hard work and passion, then there's no way you can't be successful. There's just no way. And I just feel that, that I am successful because I do that. Yeah. Yeah. 

SHANALIE WIJESINGHE: 

Authentically. I love it. Thank you. 

MICHELLE SAUNDERS JAMES:

Yeah. I think  so. It's true. And communication also helps you become successful. Being able to communicate everything that you need, everything that you want and ask for help. Asking for help. Yeah. will also help you become more successful because you can't, you can't do it all on your own. No, you can't, you can't, you, you need people to help you. And so that's why I'm really grateful for you all because support is, I mean, you can't do it without, can't do it on your own.

SHANALIE WIJESINGHE:

Well, we love supporting you, Michelle. So Saunders and James has been incredible, so the whole Boulevard team and everyone adores working with you. 

MICHELLE SAUNDERS JAMES: 

Well, I feel supported completely and I wouldn't have been able to do the kind of business that I do, uh, offering the kind of customer service that I, that I really am proud of without the type of, technology that y'all provide because it really helps me be successful. Because I can, I can communicate with my client on the regular all the time through text, through email and they expect it. Now clients expect a type of communication and customer service and it sets you apart from every other business when you have that kind of technology behind you. 

SHANALIE WIJESINGHE: 

It's so true. Yeah. All about the client experience at the end of the day. Yeah. 

MICHELLE SAUNDERS JAMES: 

The client experience without, I mean, I always tell my team when we have team meetings each week. There's three things going on. I don't have a salon without you, and we don't have a salon without clients, and you all don't have a salon without me. I said, so we are all in this together, and we have to figure out how to keep it afloat every day. And we just do it every day, and when things feel stressed out, because they do, and sometimes things happen that you don't have control of, you just have to feel the pain and then just let it go and realize that everything's going to be okay. Because you're in action. You're just constantly doing what you want to do and love. You gotta love it. 

‍SHANALIE WIJESINGHE: 

Absolutely. Yeah, we can feel that for sure. So tell us, where can listeners listening, where can they find you? 

MICHELLE SAUNDERS JAMES: 

Okay, so we are in our salon's in Oakland, California. It's on a really amazing street called College Avenue, not far from UC Berkeley. And we have a great Instagram called at Saunders and James. We have a great website. And that's where we are. And I like to post fun things. I really love color. I love nail color so much and I love it seasonally. Spring comes, fall comes, winter. I mean when you think about those like seasons, you think about all the amazing colors that come with that.

So our salon is based on trends, but seasonal trends. Like what's gonna happen this season? What's gonna happen now? So that's what we do. We try to, we try to help you be hip and trendy, but also classic at the same time with all the colors that we choose for you. 

SHANALIE WIJESINGHE: 

I love it. Thank you. Thank you so much, Michelle. This was incredible. Like I said, we learn something new from you every day. So thank you again for being here with us.

MICHELLE SAUNDERS JAMES: 

Yay! I'm so glad to be here. I appreciate it and have a good day. Thank you.

‍